Raise Up

Jan Rock’s Jazzy (and Jaded) Ideas About Raises

April 08, 2020 Amanda LeFever Episode 3
Raise Up
Jan Rock’s Jazzy (and Jaded) Ideas About Raises
Show Notes Transcript

Jan L. Rock has worked as director of training and HR exec at global brands like 7-Eleven Corp and Rita’s Italian Ice, and she's with us talking about all the things YOU can do to get a raise at work!
 
From her home base in San Diego, for over a decade, Jan stood up franchisees all over the West Coast, coaching them to success with their new businesses.
 
In this episode, Jan shares success managers and staff had with strategies such as preparing lists of accomplishments, and what Corp executives really look at when the boss walks through the door.
 
It’s even more fun than last week because Jan has known your host Amanda since she was a baby, which brings a whole new perspective to the Raise Up Podcast!


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Jan:

It's not something you can just walk into and ad-lib or wing it because you sell yourself short.

Amanda:

Ladies and gentlemen welcome back to the raise up podcast. I'm so excited that you're here, and I'm super, super excited about today's guests. And you know, I've known this lady for a really long time now, actually like 33 years. In fact, it is my very own mother, and it might freak you out because we sound an awful lot like each other. So, you have to tell me like was that one of the biggest things growing up that we sound alike. So, let us know if you think the same thing, but I am so excited to introduce her to you guys. She is not only my mom, but she is super smart. She's an experienced executive who's assisted in launching new concepts, branding global companies, global, not just national, global, and developing partnerships. She's a successful entrepreneur. She's owned two successful businesses, mother of three amazing adult children. I am one of them, and the happy grandmother to six incredible grandkids. So, J Rock, mama Jan , how's your self-isolation going? This whole COVID-19?

Jan:

Ooh, Mandy. I'm adjusting as most of us are, naturally, I worry about my loved ones who live in various states, but we've been finding creative ways to stay in touch. It's been great for work though, little to no distractions, and best of all, no commute time. And for a California girl that's saying a lot.

Amanda:

Yeah, you used to have a huge commute, didn't you, when you lived in California?

Jan:

Oh, my goodness. I would spend approximately three hours on the road, an hour and a half going, and an hour and a half coming home, and you know , that was only a 15-mile drive, thanks to the wonderful 405, and lots of traffic. It makes you learn a lot of new songs, and listen to books, and it's a pretty great time to get caught up on all of your phone calls.

Amanda:

Does it teach you patience? I've always wondered that. Or if it just makes you more hostile when you get to work.

Jan:

You know, for me, it was actually changing my mindset and realizing that this is where I was on my commute to work, and it made me take things into a whole new perspective. It was no longer, ah , I'm stuck. It was alright, this is a part of my drive. What can I do to make it better?

Amanda:

Nice. So you usually use music for that?

Jan:

I did. I love to listen to music. I have a radio in my head so, I have a penchant for being able to memorize words quickly, but I also used it as a time to catch up with my family as well. It gave me an opportunity to talk to each individual member and have meaningful conversations. So, that was the best part.

Amanda:

That's right. I used to talk to you in the mornings on your drive.

Jan:

We had a scheduled time, and it worked out really nice because it was a great way for the time to just fly by.

Amanda:

Nice. So, I enjoyed those times. I'm glad you're here with me in North Carolina and not in Cali. We're going to have to go visit. I love California, though.

Jan:

Yeah. The sunsets are amazing there. But the sunsets and sunrises in North Carolina are just as beautiful.

Amanda:

They are, they're really pretty. So, let's talk. All the people want to know about getting a raise. So, that's pretty much what the show's about is all about the things that people can do. If they're feeling undervalued, how can they approach the raise conversation, and what can they do in preparation for that? And so, I'm just going to dive right into questions. Is that okay with you? Are you ready ? Are you ready? We were talking about traffic, but we're going to pivot to questions about raising up. What is your, your best advice for someone who feels undervalued?

Jan:

Well, Mandi, I think it's important, first of all, is to understand why we feel undervalued. Taking into consideration some of the things that may help us understand our position better would be the climate and the culture of the organization. And in some instances, we might need to actually ask ourselves, is the company even a company that's a good fit for me, or are they someone that I can grow with?

Amanda:

Hmm. Okay. So that's kind of the first question. Whenever you're feeling undervalued, like, is this the right place? Do I like my job? Do I like the people I work with?

Jan:

Exactly. Do you wake up in the morning excited to go to work, and while you're at work, do you feel engaged in a part of the business?

Amanda:

Do you feel like that advice kind of changes in today's world for companies who are cash strapped or being bailed out?

Jan:

Unfortunately, downsizing is a part of our current reality. Businesses are still looking for their employees to continue to contribute to the organization. Usually, during these times, companies are looking to their leaders for consistency, which is so important. They lean on their high performers to keep the business running smoothly. But we still have great people who are still doing great work, and their value should never change.

Amanda:

Yeah, I could see that. So the high performers are stepping up, and they're doing more as everybody's downsizing, and so it's really going to set them up in a great position whenever it is time to have the performance review or anything like that or those types of conversations with their bosses. Okay. So, on the show, we typically talk about the one or two times a year people find themselves having a real raise conversation or a conversation about their compensation. Tell us a little bit about some of the good conversations you've been a part of in your career, whether that's you or someone else. What did those conversations look like?

Jan:

Sure. When I first started my career, I actually had no idea how to monetize my value. Consequently, this left me either underestimating myself, leaving money on the table, if you will or simply asking too much for the position. This was frustrating. I knew I had the skill sets they were looking for but had no idea how to go about properly negotiating my worth. As I began to try and grow my career, I was faced with the same challenges, right back where I started, clueless as to my value, and sometimes settling for the offered pay. It wasn't until I started actually planning and preparing for the discussions. I began researching the role, the company salary ranges for the specific role, and responsibilities, and then had something tangible that I could actually use to my advantage to help me have more power in my negotiations. Now I'm not saying that I walked away with the best salary I could have ever imagined or hoped for, but it did provide me with bargaining power. Remember, compensation comes in a variety of ways, additional vacation time, car allowances, bonuses, profit sharing, and the possibilities are endless and always amount to additional money in our pockets.

Amanda:

Where were you working, first of all, whenever you realized that you wanted to have like these, that you needed to be more prepared for these performance conversations and then also what kind of perks really got you excited outside of monetary?

Jan:

So Amanda, unfortunately, I learned some of these tricks a little later on in my career. I just didn't have the wherewithal or the knowledge when I was younger to be able to know how to negotiate better for myself. I had been working for a very large global business, and the base salary was minimal, but it was a nice lifestyle for me, but it didn't really come with very many perks. I had the opportunity to go to work for a brand-new corporation that was just launching. It was a new concept, and when I went into my negotiations with them, I actually had a little bit more knowledge of how to have these types of discussions, and I was very happy with the way that the interview process went, and the amount of compensation that they were willing to provide. But really what caught my attention, and really what made me so excited about the position, was they were offering safe Harbor contributions on my behalf. They were providing me with a car allowance, and actually a vehicle of my own. They provided all of the gas and insurance. I also had opportunities to have bonuses, and yearly reviews were on time, and they were substantial. And that was the first time in my career that I actually really, truly understood the value of the entire package that was being provided to me instead of just a salary. It was an entire package that was going to make my life better, and improve my lifestyle, and my relationships because I was being afforded a lot more opportunities in that way.

Amanda:

That's amazing. I think that a lot of companies are starting to move in that direction of more of a holistic approach to how they're taking care of their people. It seems like because from what you're saying is, later in your career, a lot of the jobs before that didn't have as many perks or options. It was all about base salary.

Jan:

That's correct. You know, and it wasn't until the climate of employment started to change where organizations were really looking for great people, and because the pool size of those types of applicants that were qualified started to shrink. And so, you saw companies start to offer more than just the salary because it doesn't always mean it's just about the money, although we all love to be paid well. It comes down to all of the other additional items that they offer to you that really do improve your lifestyle. So, insurance was a huge one for me. Forever, I've paid large amounts of money to be covered by insurance, and now I had a company that was willing to pay 90%, and it made it very manageable for me, and affordable, and that put money back into my pocket that we don't always take into consideration when we're looking at those benefit packages, we just think of the hard dollar line, and it comes down to so much more. Once you start to monetize those additional benefits, you do see that your actual base pay increases Infinitum , based on those types of contributions that your employers are willing to make.

Amanda:

So, you've been in managerial roles, executive type roles. What type do you look for specifically whenever you're doing performance reviews with people?

Jan:

Mandi, I've had a lot of experience in helping people prepare for raises, and compensation reviews, and things of that nature. My best advice is that when you come to the table ready to negotiate for a raise, that you are well-prepared , preparation is one of the very first steps in being ready to actually have those meaningful types of conversations. So, knowing what your accomplishments have been throughout the year or by annually. Whenever your reviews are due , understanding who you are, what your contributions to the organization are, how you have improved yourself, how you've worked to develop your teams, how you have become more engaged in the business itself. And my best advice to everyone is to make sure that you are well prepared to have those conversations. It's not something you can just walk into an ad lib or wing it, because you sell yourself short. We have a tendency to not be able to remember our past accomplishments because we don't really, we don't really relish in them, we don't savor those really important moments in our lives. They're just a check on a checklist. And those all, the small and large projects all accumulate together to create a bigger picture for our supervisors, our superiors, whoever it may be that we're reporting to directly. But making sure that we're ready for those conversations is really, truly, the most important thing that we can do to help ourselves and to show our value to the organization. It's when we come well prepared with everything that we've accomplished in the past, and who we are, and the value that we bring to the organization.

Amanda:

So are you advising people to like keep track, almost like write these things down and document them and make sure that you're remembering all of the things that you've done or the conferences that you went to or is that, is that what you're saying as far as preparation?

Jan:

Absolutely it is. It took me a really long time to understand this concept. The yearly review would come around, and I'd sit down two weeks before the review was ready to happen. And I think, okay , what have I done? And I could not remember anything from the past 11 months. And all I could remember was what was sitting right in front of me. And my best advice to not only myself but to everyone that I worked with was to literally create a folder on your desktop or a task list or using your calendar to note all of these accomplishments that you have completed. It helped me, and it's helped others to be able to jot those things down very quickly, keep them in a stored area so that when it came review time, you could pull open that information, and you could write the most amazing detailed review that you'd ever written before. And how impressive is that to be able to sit down with your boss or leader, and be able to have a detailed accounting of all of the accomplishments that you had, that you had completed in the year prior? And it also created a sense of confidence and completion. When I would sit down to write those reviews, I was actually amazed at the things I had accomplished, and it made my confidence grow so much bigger, and it allowed me to sit down and have very detailed, intelligent conversations, and it allowed me to advocate for myself. I could say, this is why I am rating myself on a scale of one to five, I was giving myself fours and fives. I was an expert, and I had mastered. But before that, I was selling myself short, and on a scale of one to five, I was giving myself a three, meeting expectations. Meeting expectations is literally just showing up for work every day on time, ready to work. That's not really what we want as individuals, and it's definitely not what our organizations are looking for. They're looking for people who step up, contribute , put themselves out there, and are strong and confident, and these are the type of people that become very strong leaders, and accelerate their careers, and are able to move up quickly.

Amanda:

So, I bet you have some stories about some conversations that have happened between you and people that you are giving performance reviews too. What is your favorite story that you would love to share with everyone? Because I love stories.

Jan:

It's funny because war stories are really a dime a dozen, Mandi. Success stories, though, those actually really add up to thousands of dollars, right? And thousands of people who have been successful. I've had many war stories. I've seen managers who have come in , using challenging times to create leverage for themselves and seeing that backfire.

Amanda:

Like as in them getting fired?

Jan:

In some instances , that can actually happen. It's true. In some instances, that can actually happen. It's true. If you're fighting for something that is unrealistic or you're holding your company over a barrel, it is never really the right time to approach your leaders and ask for a raise or additional compensation. And so, I have seen a lot of people fail in that area because they weren't using their talents and their skills to request a promotion or additional compensation. They were using challenging times and holding their employers over a barrel, and almost forcing them into giving them an additional compensation package or raise. And those are never really the right times when challenging times h it a n organization. As I said earlier, they're looking to their leaders and their high performers to really pick up the slack and jump in and continue to be strong leaders in the organization. But when we are positioning ourselves to create a weakness for the organization and to bolster ourselves up, those don't usually go well. The time set asking for those additional compensations when those times come about is when you have been performing, you've been reaching, you've been stretching yourself, you're thinking out of the box, you've been working so hard to build relationships with the people who are on your team and people who aren't on your team. It's all about building relationships and being noticed, showing up doesn't just mean showing up on time, but it means showing up, ready to work, prepared to give your all. And those are the people who I've seen be the most successful in getting that extra money into their pockets. They come about it not from a selfish perspective, but from a realistic approach that they want to give their very best and that they're hoping to see the best compensation, best reviews, best raises that they can possibly achieve because they have been so committed to being professionals and making sure that they're having those great conversations at the right time.

Amanda:

Okay. So how often would you typically do the performance reviews?

Jan:

In most organizations, you do see them yearly. You're usually given about a month to prepare for your review. But I have seen them bi-annually , which is great and has actually been a best practice for me in the past. A yearly review really is a little too long to go as an employee without knowing really truly where you stand in the organization. Are you a great contributor? Do they value you? Do they recognize the contributions that you're making? And so, in the last few businesses that I have worked with , we did develop bi- annual reviews because it gave us an opportunity to address situations more quickly. But another thing that is a great asset is to have monthly one-on-one reviews where you sit down and actually talk about what's going on right now. What have you been working on this month? Do you need to be redirected or are you just going to hear amazing praises from your leader because you are headed in the right direction, you're showing your full potential, and are you a true leader? You're bringing other people on board with you. You're reaching out, your volunteering for committees, you're volunteering to be leaders of meetings with other departments, but you're really putting yourself out there. And those one-on-one reviews are very important. But bi-annually is by far, I believe, one of the best approaches to take for reviews.

Amanda:

What would you say for people that don't necessarily have great leaders in their organization, is there a way for them to prepare for those types of conversations? Or is it, are you sure you want to be at this organization?

Jan:

Sometimes things just happen in organizations where leaders are brought in, and sometimes there's just not a great fit, but we have so many other resources available to ourselves. We have peers, we have colleagues, we have other people that maybe we have a dotted line to that we report to. We have people from our past that we've worked with that we've learned through different personality types and styles of how to be able to engage with those types of leaders. But it doesn't change the way that we approach our reviews. It just might change a little bit of the dynamic and language. Yeah . Or the dynamics of the conversation that we're engaged in. But we have a lot of opportunities and have had a lot of opportunities in our past to practice those types of conversations with other people. And so truly for me is there's really no different approach to having those types of conversations with those maybe challenging leaders. Because if we have been diligent and we have documented all of our past accomplishments, when we come to that conversation, we're armed and ready. We have all of the documentation that we need to be able to have a very truthful and meaningful conversation. And regardless of what that leader looks like, we own our part.

Amanda:

So right now we're in the middle of Covid-19. So how might that type of conversation look differently today, right? With the economy in a downturn, all the layoffs, it's kind of an uncertain environment. What would you say as far as that goes?

Jan:

Well, you know, Mandi, right now, many people are finding themselves working remotely. It's a part of reality for us at the moment. And for some people it can be challenging. I used to work in the field, I used to be gone and visiting different locations and now I find myself sitting at a desk, which for someone who has a lot of energy, which I do.

Amanda:

Now I know where I get that from.

Jan:

I can sometimes be challenged with keeping my attention focused and directed, I've learned to take breaks , short, little quick break so that I can get my right mind back again and sit down and refocus. But what I've found is that it's really important for us to stay well connected, talking with our peers, making sure that we're communicating well, whether it be via zoom or webinars, conference calls, emails, whatever that looks like for you as an individual in your organization is making sure that you're still showing up and doing the exact same job that you would have done had you been sitting at your desk at work. And so one thing that I find very helpful is to keep the same routine, set the alarm for the exact same time you always have, get up, get showered, get ready for work, just like you were getting ready to commute and punch into to your desk. Punch a time clock and show up at your desk . So, it's really important to stay grounded, stay focused, and make sure that you're still continuing those habits even though you get to still enjoy the benefits of working remotely. So I know that companies are challenged at this particular moment, but there are a lot of government programs and a lot of individuals who are stepping up and contributing to keeping this beautiful country of ours flowing and moving and still growing and having people be successful still. And we see the larger organizations that continue to thrive and grow. But you do see those, those great, great companies who have always put the culture of the business in the forefront and that in putting the culture of their organization in the forefront that takes their people with them. A company that has a great culture and takes great care of its people, those people stay dedicated and committed , for however long it takes to get through these difficult times. And those organizations repay those people by helping them , because of their commitment to the brand.

Amanda:

So you're saying don't get greedy?

Jan:

Don't get greedy. You know, there's a time and a place for us to request and go about those positive conversations when, and I'm not saying you just wait until the company is booming with profits. But there is a time and place to have those conversations. And during these specific times, especially when we see employers allowing us to work remotely if we're fortunate enough to be blessed with that opportunity. But it's very important for us to be wise with our timing and when we are approaching our employers to ask for additional compensation, it has to be the right time, not just for us but for the organization as well.

Amanda:

What would you say for the people that have been laid off? I mean, I know that you've worked for some organizations that have had to downsize and let people go that were talented and good and contributing. Is this a time of rebuilding? Is this a time of education? What do you think?

Jan:

That's a great point, Mandi. In fact, I know a lot of people who have returned back to school , working to either complete a degree , whether it's a high school , college or even their masters , doctorate, whatever that looks like for them as an individual, this is a great opportunity for them to continue to build their skill set and to create more value within themselves, build their confidence, help them to be able to even apply for jobs that maybe before they weren't qualified for. But now they are. And I've seen a lot of people create their own businesses out of necessity. What can I do? What resources and skills do I have that I can approach a new business and create a business that satisfies a need? And so, I've seen a lot of people start new businesses and using that as a way to help create income for themselves. It's challenging because there are a lot of businesses that are shrinking, but because of what's going on in our country right now, there are a lot of businesses that are in a hiring boom phase . And that's also a great way for us to remain active and to continue to build on our resume. It is helping us to stay focused on the positive things that are going on in our lives rather than some of the challenging moments that are apparent right now during this time. So, there are a lot of opportunities for us still to continue to build and grow ourselves. So, through school taking on an entrepreneurial role or trying something completely different, you just never know what you might find. Maybe you would love being a delivery driver and being able to listen to music in your vehicle all day long. Like I have said, I love and enjoy it . So, there's a lot of different opportunities that sometimes people don't see because we have on blinders and we're so focused on my career track and the direction I need to go and how will I ever become a vice president if I'm driving a delivery truck. But during these times, it's important that we have income, and it's important that we continue to feel good about ourselves and when we're able to contribute and help other people and grow other businesses, it's a good time for us as individuals.

Amanda:

Yeah, that was a good answer. Geez, girl, you're on it today. I just made her blush. So, I want to go back to the war stories a little bit. I want to know some of your stories, what they did that worked, and then what they did that didn't necessarily work?

Jan:

So things that did work are the people who actually came prepared. They knew their value and they knew their worth to the organization. They were comfortable with their skill sets on. Their confidence was high. They knew exactly what they were doing every single day when they walked into work. And by the end of their day when they walked away from work, they felt good about the contributions that they had made. They felt positive and enlightened, and uplifted as they would leave thinking tomorrow; this is the next thing that I'm going to accomplish. The best times that I have seen is when employees have actually come prepared, ready to have a very meaningful conversation to discuss all of the accomplishments and contributions that they had made during that time frame. Two things they have in common and they're the two most important things that you can have. And the first one is planning. And the second one is preparation. If you have not done your homework, if you have not planned in advance, you have not prepared , the likelihood of you being successful through that compensation or review period, your chances are slim to none. But the people that I have seen be very, very successful, get promotions, get great raises, have increased benefits. Those are the individuals who have shown up to work every single day. They've voiced their opinions and they work to build relationships within the organization. They are noticed, they are noticed because of the way they show up to work. And when you sit down at review time with them and they have this detailed amazingly written review that accounts for every single task that they've completed, both big and it's important to know small as well. The relationships that they've built, those are the people who are the most successful with getting those additional compensations and raises.

Amanda:

Would they ask specifically for an increased number, or would they have other things that they were hoping to receive as far as vacation or sick pay?

Jan:

Absolutely, and that is the difference between successful and unsuccessful. Unsuccessful, they walk in t heir review, on a scale of one to five, say they meet expectations, a number three, which is minimal, right? And so, they're looking at a 1%-3% increase, which is a cost of living increase, which really is nothing. A lot of times I can remember early on I go, my gosh, i t's only like $50 a paycheck. What the heck does that mean for me? I'm successful people, they walk into the room knowing and ready, confident, prepared, and say, this is what I need to make my life better and to make my performance for you guaranteed. And they're able to have those conversations, and they go, well, a nd sometimes if we walk into the room and we say, I need $10,000, I believe that's what my s kill s et brings to the table. It doesn't necessarily mean we're going to get $10,000 right that minute. But if we can't, and we can find a way to compromise with our employers, maybe they come to us and say, right now, we're prepared to offer you $5,000 in an additional compensation raise. That's your opportunity to bargain. That's your opportunity to stand up a nd advocate for yourself and say, a ll r ight, I can agree to the $5,000 if we can come to terms in some other way. Is there a possibility that I can have an additional week of vacation? Is there a possibility that we can meet in the middle, and you can start to provide me with a stipend for my gas because I travel so many miles for business? And so, there's a lot of different ways that our employers can compensate us for, for work well done. And for compensating us as individuals don't just mean, w hen you look at your paycheck, you're like, Holy mackerel. It's not just $50. It's, a thousand dollars extra per paycheck. But it's about really what makes your life better. And all of those ingredients really do create additional money into your pocket. So, we need to be open-minded when we walk into those types of conversations and not limiting ourselves or placing a hard no, that I either get $10,000 today or I'm prepared to walk away. Employers don't want to lose their best people. And so, they are also willing to negotiate as well. So, we just need to know that when we walk into those rooms, we're prepared, we're ready, we know how to negotiate and advocate for ourselves. And those are the people that are the most successful.

Amanda:

I could see that. Okay. So, is there anything else that you would like to impart? Knowledge, funny stories, antidotes, anything at all that you would like to close with that I didn't really cover?

Jan:

Well, Amanda, I'm really happy with our conversation today. I feel like we've covered a lot of areas , when it comes to compensation and review times. I do have one story that I have to share with you. The last company that I actually interviewed with, I was so excited it really was the creme de la creme as though I thought , the salary and the title that I was applying for was the highest title I'd ever applied for, the largest compensation package I'd ever seen. And I wanted it so badly, so badly I could taste it. I did all of my homework, and I researched the company, I researched the median salary range. I understood what the job responsibilities were, I matched my skill sets to the job responsibilities. And I knew I was so prepared walking into this interview. I knew I was going to get this job, sat down, and started going through conversations, and it was a long day. I interviewed with eight different people in one day for the position. And the very last person that I sat down with was a VP, and that was the position that I was fighting for was a VP position as well. And he looked at my resume, and he looked at me, and he said, your resume is filled with fluff. And I thought, wow, I have worked so hard my whole career to be able to put these ingredients into my resume and my mind. After I finished that conversation with him, which was not really a great feeling to walk away with, but it created a resolve in me that I told myself I would never put myself in this type of position again. And I started to look at my resume and what I thought were, heavy, hefty words that described all of my accomplishments. They really were fluff, and he was right. And I started to take my own advice into consideration and rewrote my resume. And I took some of my old accomplishment folders, which I kept religiously, and I used that information to rewrite my resume. My accomplishments were so clear cut, so well-defined that when I rewrote my resume, it really truly reflected all of the accomplishments and successes that I had had in my past. And when I uploaded that resume onto LinkedIn and indeed and every job board I could possibly think of, the types of hits that I was getting on my profile, and my resume were astounding. I started to realize the importance of that folder on my desktop of keeping all of those tasks written down and making sure that I understood the contributions that I had made in my past and how good it made me feel about the things that I had done. So, that when I knew I was going to get into a situation that would soon be coming again because I would be interviewing as well again. That when I would sit down in those interviews, that I could speak so clearly to my resume that I knew I would be the one that they would choose. They would have no other choice because I was clearly going to be the best candidate and the best match.

Amanda:

Nice. That's awesome. So those little folders came in handy.

Jan:

Yeah. Practice what you preach. I needed to take my own advice, and that was the one time that it really truly did pay off for me.

Amanda:

Nice. Well thanks for coming on the show.

Jan:

Thank you. It's been an honor and a privilege, and I'm so grateful I got to have this conversation with you.

Amanda:

You did a great job. You called me Amanda a couple of times and it's a little bit concerning because you only call me Amanda when I'm in trouble, so it threw me off just a tiny bit. So, if you heard her say Mandi, that's what I grew up being known as. I always wondered why you guys named me, Amanda, and then called me Mandi.

Jan:

Do you know when you're young and silly and you just don't understand how the government works and that you need to be named legal names instead of nicknames. We always wanted your name to be Mandi. It was a favorite name of your dad and I's, and members of our family as well. And so, we were trying to be formal. Right? And so, Amanda sounded so formal, but we should have named you Mandi.

Amanda:

Mandi. I l ike both names.

Jan:

I love them both too. But you're right. I only said Amanda maybe when you were in a little bit of trouble. Mandi is my loving and endearing name for you.

Amanda:

You used Amanda Jo .

Jan:

I didn't use that name very often. But in trying to be professional with you today. I know it slipped out a few times.

Amanda:

That's okay. It's normal. It's good when you use Mandi instead of Amanda. Yeah . So that's , that's just to clarify that, but yeah. So, if you stayed with me this long, stayed with us this long, I hope you got something valuable. I wanted to take a moment and say thank you. You have so many options for business and live podcasts, and I feel really honored that you're listening today. And of course, I want to encourage you to subscribe to the podcast. I mean, of course, I want to, you got to help us spread the word. Some of you are going to make big moves with the things you learn today from my mom, Jan Rock. We loved her. And we will only hear, if you're, I'm like tripping up. I'm so excited about it. You'll only hear if you're subscribed on like Spotify or iTunes or wherever you listen to this podcast. So, we typically don't email the bonus episodes. We'll like throw bonus episodes up, and that's how you can get access. So, make sure you subscribe this year is crazy. Covid-19 is crazy. I'm praying for you guys. I love you guys and I'll see you back here next week. Bye.